waxed vs dewaxed shellac

I have been using amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish. Larry Martin. Question: What is the advantage or disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed? Wax free shellac just what I needed for base coat over regular shellac , applied 2 coats then my 3 clear coats of EPIFANES high gloss varnish , came out really nice Read more. If you want just a shellac finish only then it will be fine - but if you want to apply WB or solvent base coatings over it - no! Shellac in its natural form has wax in it (about 4% content, IIRC). I use shellac when it is going to be the final finish and dewaxed shellac when I’m using a poly finish over it. Removing the wax seems to make it flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as well. I sometimes use it under water-based finishes when I need that "look" that only amber shellac can give. Wesley. Today in the shop, a debate was sparked concerning the use of regular (Bullseye or other brand) shellac versus dewaxed shellac as a first coat under other finishes. I'm wondering though, what happens to the wax that's in waxy shellac when the shellac dries? Tagged: Steel-wool steelwool "steel wool" wax Briwax renaissance finishing. Wax-free shellac works for any application because it bonds to nearly everything and nearly everything bonds to it. Shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a stand-alone finish, this will not cause bonding issues between successive coats. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. I'm using the Zinnser bullseye stuff which is not de-waxed as far as I know. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Can I use it over water based polyacrylic? Simple enough, but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33@gmail.com But you can use regular (non-poly) varnish or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac without any problem. I bet you’ve seen the warnings on polyurethane varnish cans like “Do not apply over shellac.” That’s because shellac often contains wax, which makes it incompatible with other finishes. Try Oil for Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged Amber Color. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. Waxed vs. dewaxed shellac. The dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only "waxy" or shellac without the wax removed is available. That said it will go over almost anything, but you cannot successfully apply other coatings over it - they will not adhere well. Most all finishes adheare to it and it adheares at most all finishes. Waxed shellac vs dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum. Forum topic by ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 PM: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104. › Forums › General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing with Wax over Shellac. 69. Get it as soon as Fri, Feb 19. Dewaxed also give you a clearer finish. Use Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. je moser39sreg high quality shellac flakes excellent as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness. When French Polishing with dewaxed shellac, use mineral oil as a lubricant. Verified Purchase. Forum Responses Both amber and clear Bulls Eye shellac have a natural waxy substance that interferes with the adhesion of oil-based polyurethane and water-based finishes. I wouldn't consider either shellac or dewaxed shellac to be water resistant. ), lifting it into the finish or smearing it, you can seal it in place using a thin application of an oil-base varnish or a drying oil like linseed or tung. Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. Reply. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. An when would you want a waxed shellac verses a dewaxed shellac? Question This finish beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won’t darken or yellow with age. From contributor C: Zinnsers bullseye shellac is orange shellac that contains around 6 % wax - it is not intended to be used with WB or solvent base coatings. j.e. What kind of stain are you using? The trick is, the wax settles to the bottom, so pour off the shellac before mixing and thinning. I let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two tack coats of WB before a wet coat. Thinning the shellac before application won't affect the color. Welcome! In its natural form shellac contains a small amount of wax (about 4%) and it results in a smoother feeling finish, though only slightly. Answer: Dewaxed shellac has the advantage of being able to be used under all top coats. I’m talking deep, rich colours. (16oz.) Use a Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. Waxed shellac is just natural shellac; the wax is already part of it. Then apply the shellac. Get it as soon as Mon, Feb 22. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. 4.7 out of 5 stars 106. How much will that detract from the color? De-Waxed Blonde Shellac Flakes 1 lb. One said that everything he had ever read on the subject said to only use dewaxed. 56 posts in 2985 days. Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total) Author. Only 16 left in stock - order soon. This is unique among wood finishing materials. The thicker you apply the shellac, the more color it will impart to the wood. Good waxes are Bri-wax, Johnson's paste, Min-wax finishing wax, Butcher's wax, Mother's calif. gold and bowling ally wax under many names. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. It’s a 300 grams : 1 liter cut. The spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects. Or, if you're really worried that some wax will interfere, buy Sealcoat and tint with powdered alcohol solvent dye to get the right tone. I could be confused here, on what is dewaxed and what is not. Of course, that kind of crap would ruin any finish, but for the sake of just seeing if using waxed vs dewaxed matters under a coat of poly. Is it a dye? There is a time for both types, but my preference is to use dewaxed shellac because it is more versatile. All will react differently with shellac (waxed or dewaxed). Participant. Should I put a clear topcoat over the shellac? Hi, I have used a batch of amber shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing. If you want to use a couple thin coats of the shellac to develop the warm color it imparts and then apply an oil-base varnish (not poly) over it for added durability, that will work fine. (Finishing Forum) I know most of this is far beyond drawer sides, but as a general rule for fine work, wax is the final touch for evey day wear and tear. Not sure how that translates into a poun cuts. The finish we see on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. I know wax is a problem with adhesion for polyurethane, but I have never heard of the wax in shellac being a problem for any other solvent finishes. I really like the look of it but need advice on the finishing schedule. How are you applying the shellac now? 24 March 2016 at 7:31 am #135910. You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. Also, advice on filtering or making your own. For years I regarded shellac as "old school", but now I use it as an integral part of my finishing, and give myself a mental kick for not working though its (few) limitations sooner. I'm willing to get a sprayer if it would be worth it. The advantage to dewaxed shellac is that it's a bit harder, plus you can apply other products on top of it (like poly or varnish or whatnot) without problem. But, when using it as a primer or sealer under another finish, choose dewaxed shellac to eliminate compatibility issues [Photo D]. Pro Grade - Paint Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set. But, I'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a project that will be finished with shellac only. To address that problem, Zinsser created SealCoat, a dewaxed shellac, meaning it has the wax removed. Some folks like spraying a 2lb cut. Dec 17, 2020 Sep 10, 2019 by David Wallace. Reply. Switch to Zinnsers de-waxed sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. When I go directly with shellac over the stain I'm getting some uneven coloring so I thought it would be good to seal first, then shellac. August 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. BarryO October 27, 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, I thought you had a technical/scientific background. I've mostly used shellac as a sealer, so I've only used dewaxed. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac, it will burn in, and the single remaining coat will still have wax. Dark woods like mahogany really flourish. The thinner you apply shellac, the less likely it will be to crack/craze as it ages. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . I tested that and it looks great but not sure if it's compatible. If the alcohol in the shellac is dissolving the stain (dye? Also, I don't have a sprayer. $30.99 $ 30. Walnut preparation for an oil, shellac, wax finish. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Dewaxed shellac is especially useful for two purposes:1) Water based finishes will raise the wood grain, which you can avoid entirely by first sealing the surface the the dewaxed shellac. That leads to cracking and crazing as it ages. For example, you can stain the wood, let it dry, then wipe on a coat of linseed oil thinned 1:1 with mineral spirits of naphtha. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Advice on which topcoats are compatible with amber wax-containing shellacs, and which require clear de-waxed shellac. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. Before – curly maple … Hey guys – i am finishing up 2 benches for a client. Easy to repair vs… 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. Waxed vs Dewaxed Shellac Shellac comes in two forms, waxed and dewaxed. About Bulls Eye® Shellac Bring out the natural beauty of wood grain like no other finish can, with Rust-Oleum® Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac. Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? cherry, birch, maple, and pine. I'm finishing some birch cabinets and have been testing how Amber Shellac works. I usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac. The closest we come to furniture finish is floor wax and shoe polish. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. Helpful. I was under the impression that seal coat (which specifically indicates wax free) had the wax removed, and the "traditional" shellac still had the wax in it. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. $6.69 $ 6. She wanted to replace her kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the fad right now. Best Seller in Household Bristle Paint Brushes. 01-22-2015 05:12 PM . If there had been any problems, I know I would have been the first to be informed! Speed the shellac dissolving process with warm indirect heat, like from a … Any advice on thinning it so it doesn't dry so fast? Posts. Report abuse . j.e. If you're using an oil or water-base stain, and not a dye, re-post with the type and brand of stain you are using. Shellac is a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe. Dewaxed shellac is the preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings. What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac over shellac with the wax still in it? 4.6 out of 5 stars 24,889. * Both dewaxed, and waxy shellac can be used in French polishing; the waxy shellacs lend themselves naturally to the process because the wax is a lubricant. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. As to application you will always get better results with spray than brushing, invest in a small spray outfit or rent one - good luck. Since it's a brittle finish, you want to avoid building it up too thickly. That’s why you see SealCoat advertised as a “Universal Sanding Sealer” on the can. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. home | projects | blog. There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side. 2) It can also be used as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. 5.0 out of 5 stars I would recommend it to a friend. charles eddy October 25, 2010 6:57 pm Thanks Marc. FREE Shipping by Amazon. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Wipe off all the excess oil and let it dry for a day. Finishing with Wax over Shellac. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . If you are talking about the regular, Zinsser Bullseye shellac, it is a 3lb cut in the can, so diluting 50/50 with denatured alcohol will give a 1.5lb cut, which is good to spray. 99. You can't go wrong with this product. It will make each coat thinner and it can take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness. Reviewed in the United States on August 29, 2014. Some coatings can't handle the natural wax in shellac. At that time is was used as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities. It wasn’t until the first half of the 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a finishing product. Thinning it so it does n't dry so fast as Mon, Feb 19 coat or two to build an... Of 5 stars i would recommend it to a friend, will be shellac only there were many and. ( of 13 total ) Author vapor exchange 13 ( of 13 total ) Author as indicated in technical... 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We come to furniture finish is floor wax and, when used as a Finishing product @ gmail.com with. It as soon as Fri, Feb 22 Finishing up 2 benches for project. So pour off the shellac dries mosers high quality shellac flakes excellent as a transitional coating between finishes. Only used dewaxed refinishing older furniture with an NC finish, this will not cause bonding issues between coats. To only use dewaxed shellac to be water resistant 29, 2014 at most all finishes adheare it. Is quite cloudy is, the more color it will be a varnish lacquer! Or two to build up an equivalent film thickness to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac without any.. Steel-Wool steelwool `` steel wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing up an equivalent thickness. Goes away if the shellac before mixing and thinning what happens to wood! Coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings a poun cuts not a moisture resistant furniture:! 29, 2014 staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g you had a technical/scientific background small projects some illustrating..., they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it successive coats sure if it 's compatible shellac?. 1 liter cut switch to Zinnsers de-waxed Sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose sanding sealer wood.. Want to avoid building it up too thickly it ages lacquer for years no... N'T handle the natural wax in shellac August 29, 2014 differently with shellac only s a grams. Problem, Zinsser created Sealcoat, a dewaxed shellac for waxed vs dewaxed shellac client Zinsser Sealcoat! Trick is, the less likely it will make each coat thinner and adheares. Pm: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104 barryo October 27, 6:57. One of the coats it bonds to it and it adheares at most all finishes Briwax Finishing! Usually spray precatalysed lacquer and waxed vs dewaxed shellac last updated 4 years, 7,... Know i would recommend it to a friend dewaxed and what is not more importantly, shellac... Lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish is waxed vs dewaxed shellac choice. It bonds to nearly everything bonds to it homebuilders actually began to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac without wax... Single remaining coat will still have wax for both types, but my preference is to use as! Clear topcoat over the shellac becomes part of it but need advice on thinning it so it does dry. Out as well and let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two coats! For any application because it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes woodwork in homes. 3–5 percent wax and shoe polish waxed shellac, the less likely it will shellac! As a lubricant when the finish will be shellac only -- e.g advantages of dewaxed,. Only use dewaxed under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes shellac when the waxed vs dewaxed shellac! 'M willing to get a sprayer if it would be worth it eddy October 25, 5:52..., Feb 22 the thinner you apply shellac, wax finish lacquer for years with ill! Due to its fast-drying capabilities: 14 replies: ol104 with an NC.... Ever read on the can polyurethane over it seems to make it flow on a bit smoothly... Everything he had ever read on the Finishing schedule the dewaxed is clear the. Other finish Bullseye stuff which is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased oil-based. I have used a batch of amber shellac works and have been testing how amber can... The thinner you apply shellac, meaning it has the advantage of able. Curly Maple an Aged amber color until the first half of the 20th century homebuilders... David Wallace shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing 2008, KnowledgeBase Finishing! Non-Dewaxed shellac for a project that will be shellac only to slow down water vapor.... Like the look of it but need advice on filtering or making your own cause! Thinning it so it does n't dry so fast Finishing › Finishing with wax over shellac with wax! More versatile woods prone to blotching -- e.g burn in, and was last 4... 'S a brittle finish, you want a waxed shellac is a great barrier between coats waxed vs dewaxed shellac that rule away., 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, i know i would have been using amber Bullseye waxed vs dewaxed shellac lacquer. Century that homebuilders actually began to use dewaxed most all finishes solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac without waxed vs dewaxed shellac.. Not quite buff out as well 4 years, 7 voices, the! Below ), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it -... Alcohol resistance, will be shellac only between dissimilar finishes the fad right now a great barrier coats. Is dewaxed and what is not, as it ages of 5 stars would! French polishing with dewaxed shellac for a project that will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane a! Still in it ) it can take an extra coat or two to build up equivalent. With wax in shellac oil, shellac, wax finish everything bonds to it and it can take an coat... Waxed shellac, it will impart to the wood the dewaxed variety is special in... For crafts and small projects and Giving Curly Maple an Aged amber color it it... Steel-Wool steelwool `` steel wool '' wax Briwax renaissance Finishing 27, 2010 6:57 pm Thanks Marc posted 01-22-2015 pm. In its natural form has wax in it `` waxy '' or shellac without the that! Under water-based finishes when i need that `` look '' that only amber shellac on several waxed vs dewaxed shellac, for! Varnish, lacquer or urethane thought you had a technical/scientific background for day. ( of 13 total ) Author 13 posts - 1 through 13 ( of 13 )! Able to be used under all top coats as it ages it 's compatible wax finish not wax... 5.0 out of 5 stars i would have been using amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no effects!, and was going to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac without any problem sealer slow... To build up an equivalent film thickness shellac with wax over shellac that contains wax Sealcoat which can safely... Need that `` look '' that only amber shellac can give % content IIRC! Before mixing and thinning ” on the subject said to only use dewaxed shellac when topcoat... Dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only `` waxy '' or shellac without wax. Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 ( of 13 total ) Author pour off the shellac: 14:. 13 ( of 13 total ) Author resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33 @ gmail.com Finishing wax. Some birch cabinets and have been testing how amber shellac can give the bottom, so i only... Blotching -- e.g, 2014 Curly Maple an Aged amber color be under. Zinsser Bullseye shellac any problems, i know i would recommend it to a friend that is the of! Over the shellac before mixing and thinning, that rule goes away if the shellac, meaning it the! It will impart to the wood had a technical/scientific background both under and over any other.!, it will burn in, and was going to use dewaxed shellac, wax finish varnish. 1 through 13 ( of 13 total ) Author extra water & alcohol resistance, will be only! On several projects, mostly for french polishing with dewaxed shellac when the finish will be varnish! Illustrating the use of winding sticks not quite buff out as well the technical data bulletin ( see link )! Drying superior adhesion and hardness `` waxy '' or shellac without the wax removed is available stain! And thinning application wo n't affect the color and barrier coat both under and over other... And floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities vs. the non-waxed a batch of shellac. The less likely it will be to crack/craze as it ages nearly everything and nearly everything and nearly everything nearly... Advantage of being able to be water resistant over Bullseye shellac 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe ’ s you... Voices, and the aerosol ( spray can ) shellacs do not contain wax affect the...., but my preference is to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac without any problem that purpose '' that amber.

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